Axis move to the Attic (was: Board concerns over Axis project reports - README)

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Axis move to the Attic (was: Board concerns over Axis project reports - README)

Shane Curcuru
(bcc: general@, c-dev@, board@ for FYI)

Since there hasn't been any response to the below email by any PMC
members (or indeed any community members), it may be time Axis to go to
the Apache Attic, and turn the entire project read-only.

To be blunt: if there are not three active PMC members to ensure that
the board has quarterly reports and the project could vote on a
potential security release, my estimate is that the board will move the
entire Axis project to the Attic no later than the November board
meeting, possibly earlier.

I strongly urge any PMC members or even committers on the project to
step up, propose a new PMC chair, and work on a report for the board ASAP.

---- Some perspective on why board reports are important ----

In the governance model at the ASF the board delegates responsibility
for managing projects to PMCs. To enable to board to provide oversight
across the foundation, the the PMCs aretasked with providing the board
with a quarterly report on the health of the project. The board has
noticed that the reports for XXX have been missed for a number
of months.

The reports to the board are normally written by the PMC chair but all
PMC members have an individual responsibility to ensure that a report is
submitted. If the PMC chair is not available then any PMC member can
submit the report. If you need help with this process, please reach out
to [hidden email]

Please ensure that a report for XXX is submitted to the board for the
next meeting.

If the PMC chair is not going to be available for an extended period of
time it may make sense to rotate the PMC chair. Rotating the PMC chair
does not mean the current chair has failed. People's situations and
interests change, and rotation is good as it allows more people to
become familiar with that role. Again, if assistance is required with
this process, please feel free to reach out to [hidden email]

As projects mature, they will naturally reach a point where activity
reduces to a level that the project is no longer sustainable. At Apache,
projects reach this stage when there are no longer 3 active PMC members
providing oversight. Projects that reach this stage are placed in the
attic [1].  If XXX has reached this point, please reach out to the Attic
project to arrange transfer. On the other hand, if your project is
mostly dormant but still has at least three active PMC members it can
stay in that state for as long as needed. If your project is in such a
state, please mention that in your report and verify the PMC's state at
regular intervals.

Finally, if you have any questions please feel free to reach out to
[hidden email]

----

On 2017-09-20 10:31, Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote: > (Note
mixed private/public lists)

>
> The ASF requires that any Apache project have at least three somewhat
> active PMC members - such that they can do things like review patches,
> and in particular vote to release a software update in case of security
> issues.  To verify that Apache projects are still operating by ASF
> policies, the board requires that each PMC provides a report of activity
> and project health each quarter.
>
> It's clear there's still some contributors wanting to work on Axis, but
> lately, it's equally clear from watching the lack of acceptable reports
> to the board that the PMC as a whole is not working out.
>
> I strongly urge all PMC members still listening here to work out among
> yourselves a plan to 1) choose a new project chair and recommend them to
> the board ASAP and 2) engage with the contributors still here to review
> their work and keep the project moving forward.
>
> If the PMC (and/or committers on the project) can't show some obviously
> organized energy at project management, then perhaps it's time for the
> project as a whole to consider moving to the Attic soon.

--

- Shane
  https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources

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Re: Axis move to the Attic (was: Board concerns over Axis project reports - README)

dims
+1 from me (Axis->Attic). Lot's of good memories :) Thanks Shane.

-- Dims

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote:

> (bcc: general@, c-dev@, board@ for FYI)
>
> Since there hasn't been any response to the below email by any PMC
> members (or indeed any community members), it may be time Axis to go to
> the Apache Attic, and turn the entire project read-only.
>
> To be blunt: if there are not three active PMC members to ensure that
> the board has quarterly reports and the project could vote on a
> potential security release, my estimate is that the board will move the
> entire Axis project to the Attic no later than the November board
> meeting, possibly earlier.
>
> I strongly urge any PMC members or even committers on the project to
> step up, propose a new PMC chair, and work on a report for the board ASAP.
>
> ---- Some perspective on why board reports are important ----
>
> In the governance model at the ASF the board delegates responsibility
> for managing projects to PMCs. To enable to board to provide oversight
> across the foundation, the the PMCs aretasked with providing the board
> with a quarterly report on the health of the project. The board has
> noticed that the reports for XXX have been missed for a number
> of months.
>
> The reports to the board are normally written by the PMC chair but all
> PMC members have an individual responsibility to ensure that a report is
> submitted. If the PMC chair is not available then any PMC member can
> submit the report. If you need help with this process, please reach out
> to [hidden email]
>
> Please ensure that a report for XXX is submitted to the board for the
> next meeting.
>
> If the PMC chair is not going to be available for an extended period of
> time it may make sense to rotate the PMC chair. Rotating the PMC chair
> does not mean the current chair has failed. People's situations and
> interests change, and rotation is good as it allows more people to
> become familiar with that role. Again, if assistance is required with
> this process, please feel free to reach out to [hidden email]
>
> As projects mature, they will naturally reach a point where activity
> reduces to a level that the project is no longer sustainable. At Apache,
> projects reach this stage when there are no longer 3 active PMC members
> providing oversight. Projects that reach this stage are placed in the
> attic [1].  If XXX has reached this point, please reach out to the Attic
> project to arrange transfer. On the other hand, if your project is
> mostly dormant but still has at least three active PMC members it can
> stay in that state for as long as needed. If your project is in such a
> state, please mention that in your report and verify the PMC's state at
> regular intervals.
>
> Finally, if you have any questions please feel free to reach out to
> [hidden email]
>
> ----
>
> On 2017-09-20 10:31, Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote: > (Note
> mixed private/public lists)
>>
>> The ASF requires that any Apache project have at least three somewhat
>> active PMC members - such that they can do things like review patches,
>> and in particular vote to release a software update in case of security
>> issues.  To verify that Apache projects are still operating by ASF
>> policies, the board requires that each PMC provides a report of activity
>> and project health each quarter.
>>
>> It's clear there's still some contributors wanting to work on Axis, but
>> lately, it's equally clear from watching the lack of acceptable reports
>> to the board that the PMC as a whole is not working out.
>>
>> I strongly urge all PMC members still listening here to work out among
>> yourselves a plan to 1) choose a new project chair and recommend them to
>> the board ASAP and 2) engage with the contributors still here to review
>> their work and keep the project moving forward.
>>
>> If the PMC (and/or committers on the project) can't show some obviously
>> organized energy at project management, then perhaps it's time for the
>> project as a whole to consider moving to the Attic soon.
>
> --
>
> - Shane
>   https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims

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Re: Axis move to the Attic (was: Board concerns over Axis project reports - README)

Bill Blough
In reply to this post by Shane Curcuru
I wasn't subscribed to java-dev, so it bounced there.  Resending in case
any on that list are in a similar situation.

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 05:26:49PM -0400, Bill Blough wrote:

>
> I didn't respond to the previous email because I am neither a committer
> nor a PMC member.  But since there has been no response (I had assumed
> there might be some on the private list, but apparently not), I'd like to
> chime in.
>
> Some applications I'm responsible for rely on axis2-c quite a bit.
> Therefore I have a vested interest in keeping axis going, and am willing
> to commit some time to it.
>
> I've made some recent patch contributions trying to further the 1.7.0
> roadmap that was previously laid out.  However, I cannot commit them, so
> they sit in JIRA.  (Side note: I subbitted my ICLA to the secretary (and
> was ACK'd), so I'm clear to become a committer if someone were to
> approve it.)
>
> I haven't done much work on axis lately, because I'm stuck in a sort of
> limbo. I want axis to succeed, but I have limited time to work on
> FLOSS projects - if axis is destined for the attic (it seems so from the
> lack of activity), then my time is better spent elsewhere.  But if it's
> going to be around for a while, then it's worth it to me to work on it.
> However, I don't want to spend a ton of time working on improvements
> only to have them never committed and the whole project shuffled off to
> the attic.  I would be better off spending that time finding and
> migrating to another library (not that any good options really exist,
> IMO).
>
>
> So with that said - I'm willing to commit to some number of hours per
> month (I'm not sure what that number is yet) to working on axis.  If
> that needs to include participating in the board, then I would be willing to
> do that as well.  But my commitment is dependent on enough other
> people stepping up to keep axis moving forward and out of the attic.
>
> Bill
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 04:50:29PM -0400, Shane Curcuru wrote:
> > (bcc: general@, c-dev@, board@ for FYI)
> >
> > Since there hasn't been any response to the below email by any PMC
> > members (or indeed any community members), it may be time Axis to go to
> > the Apache Attic, and turn the entire project read-only.
> >
> > To be blunt: if there are not three active PMC members to ensure that
> > the board has quarterly reports and the project could vote on a
> > potential security release, my estimate is that the board will move the
> > entire Axis project to the Attic no later than the November board
> > meeting, possibly earlier.
> >
> > I strongly urge any PMC members or even committers on the project to
> > step up, propose a new PMC chair, and work on a report for the board ASAP.
> >
> > ---- Some perspective on why board reports are important ----
> >
> > In the governance model at the ASF the board delegates responsibility
> > for managing projects to PMCs. To enable to board to provide oversight
> > across the foundation, the the PMCs aretasked with providing the board
> > with a quarterly report on the health of the project. The board has
> > noticed that the reports for XXX have been missed for a number
> > of months.
> >
> > The reports to the board are normally written by the PMC chair but all
> > PMC members have an individual responsibility to ensure that a report is
> > submitted. If the PMC chair is not available then any PMC member can
> > submit the report. If you need help with this process, please reach out
> > to [hidden email]
> >
> > Please ensure that a report for XXX is submitted to the board for the
> > next meeting.
> >
> > If the PMC chair is not going to be available for an extended period of
> > time it may make sense to rotate the PMC chair. Rotating the PMC chair
> > does not mean the current chair has failed. People's situations and
> > interests change, and rotation is good as it allows more people to
> > become familiar with that role. Again, if assistance is required with
> > this process, please feel free to reach out to [hidden email]
> >
> > As projects mature, they will naturally reach a point where activity
> > reduces to a level that the project is no longer sustainable. At Apache,
> > projects reach this stage when there are no longer 3 active PMC members
> > providing oversight. Projects that reach this stage are placed in the
> > attic [1].  If XXX has reached this point, please reach out to the Attic
> > project to arrange transfer. On the other hand, if your project is
> > mostly dormant but still has at least three active PMC members it can
> > stay in that state for as long as needed. If your project is in such a
> > state, please mention that in your report and verify the PMC's state at
> > regular intervals.
> >
> > Finally, if you have any questions please feel free to reach out to
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > ----
> >
> > On 2017-09-20 10:31, Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote: > (Note
> > mixed private/public lists)
> > >
> > > The ASF requires that any Apache project have at least three somewhat
> > > active PMC members - such that they can do things like review patches,
> > > and in particular vote to release a software update in case of security
> > > issues.  To verify that Apache projects are still operating by ASF
> > > policies, the board requires that each PMC provides a report of activity
> > > and project health each quarter.
> > >
> > > It's clear there's still some contributors wanting to work on Axis, but
> > > lately, it's equally clear from watching the lack of acceptable reports
> > > to the board that the PMC as a whole is not working out.
> > >
> > > I strongly urge all PMC members still listening here to work out among
> > > yourselves a plan to 1) choose a new project chair and recommend them to
> > > the board ASAP and 2) engage with the contributors still here to review
> > > their work and keep the project moving forward.
> > >
> > > If the PMC (and/or committers on the project) can't show some obviously
> > > organized energy at project management, then perhaps it's time for the
> > > project as a whole to consider moving to the Attic soon.
> >
> > --
> >
> > - Shane
> >   https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>

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Re: Axis move to the Attic (was: Board concerns over Axis project reports - README)

robertlazarski .
In reply to this post by dims
I was waiting for Andreas Veithen to reply since he is by far the most active contributor to Axis2 currently.

I have a vested interest in Axis2 going forward as its used extensively by the company I work for. The CVE questions that come up periodically with Axis2 and its dependencies are essential for the project to continue, and I don't expect being in the attic will allow Axis2 to be used in production projects.  

I have been a committer to Axis2 since 2006. I contributed the Spring Framework support to Axis2, ported the SOAP Monitor from Axis1 to Axis2, and wrote some docs explaining both of these and also the Ant commands. This was all years go.

Since then I did respond to some recent security questions regarding the SOAP Monitor, and I do help on the user list around once a month.

From my perspective, we have at least 3 active members as we have had several releases this year already. No problems voting. Because of any CVE's I always run the latest version and dependencies, so I do test the releases.

The main problem as I see it, is no one has stepped up to take over the monthly Apache board reports as required for the Axis2 project. I am not sure I am the right person for it, though it doesn't seem hard.

As stated, I am hoping Andreas Veithen can share his thoughts.

Kind regards,
Robert


On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Davanum Srinivas <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 from me (Axis->Attic). Lot's of good memories :) Thanks Shane.

-- Dims

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote:
> (bcc: general@, c-dev@, board@ for FYI)
>
> Since there hasn't been any response to the below email by any PMC
> members (or indeed any community members), it may be time Axis to go to
> the Apache Attic, and turn the entire project read-only.
>
> To be blunt: if there are not three active PMC members to ensure that
> the board has quarterly reports and the project could vote on a
> potential security release, my estimate is that the board will move the
> entire Axis project to the Attic no later than the November board
> meeting, possibly earlier.
>
> I strongly urge any PMC members or even committers on the project to
> step up, propose a new PMC chair, and work on a report for the board ASAP.
>
> ---- Some perspective on why board reports are important ----
>
> In the governance model at the ASF the board delegates responsibility
> for managing projects to PMCs. To enable to board to provide oversight
> across the foundation, the the PMCs aretasked with providing the board
> with a quarterly report on the health of the project. The board has
> noticed that the reports for XXX have been missed for a number
> of months.
>
> The reports to the board are normally written by the PMC chair but all
> PMC members have an individual responsibility to ensure that a report is
> submitted. If the PMC chair is not available then any PMC member can
> submit the report. If you need help with this process, please reach out
> to [hidden email]
>
> Please ensure that a report for XXX is submitted to the board for the
> next meeting.
>
> If the PMC chair is not going to be available for an extended period of
> time it may make sense to rotate the PMC chair. Rotating the PMC chair
> does not mean the current chair has failed. People's situations and
> interests change, and rotation is good as it allows more people to
> become familiar with that role. Again, if assistance is required with
> this process, please feel free to reach out to [hidden email]
>
> As projects mature, they will naturally reach a point where activity
> reduces to a level that the project is no longer sustainable. At Apache,
> projects reach this stage when there are no longer 3 active PMC members
> providing oversight. Projects that reach this stage are placed in the
> attic [1].  If XXX has reached this point, please reach out to the Attic
> project to arrange transfer. On the other hand, if your project is
> mostly dormant but still has at least three active PMC members it can
> stay in that state for as long as needed. If your project is in such a
> state, please mention that in your report and verify the PMC's state at
> regular intervals.
>
> Finally, if you have any questions please feel free to reach out to
> [hidden email]
>
> ----
>
> On 2017-09-20 10:31, Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote: > (Note
> mixed private/public lists)
>>
>> The ASF requires that any Apache project have at least three somewhat
>> active PMC members - such that they can do things like review patches,
>> and in particular vote to release a software update in case of security
>> issues.  To verify that Apache projects are still operating by ASF
>> policies, the board requires that each PMC provides a report of activity
>> and project health each quarter.
>>
>> It's clear there's still some contributors wanting to work on Axis, but
>> lately, it's equally clear from watching the lack of acceptable reports
>> to the board that the PMC as a whole is not working out.
>>
>> I strongly urge all PMC members still listening here to work out among
>> yourselves a plan to 1) choose a new project chair and recommend them to
>> the board ASAP and 2) engage with the contributors still here to review
>> their work and keep the project moving forward.
>>
>> If the PMC (and/or committers on the project) can't show some obviously
>> organized energy at project management, then perhaps it's time for the
>> project as a whole to consider moving to the Attic soon.
>
> --
>
> - Shane
>   https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims

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Re: Axis move to the Attic (was: Board concerns over Axis project reports - README)

Deepal Jayasinghe-2
I agree with Robert, Andreas is really active and he was able to push forward a release few weeks back as well.

I really like him to be the PMC chair and we can give required support to him

Deepal
I was waiting for Andreas Veithen to reply since he is by far the most active contributor to Axis2 currently.

I have a vested interest in Axis2 going forward as its used extensively by the company I work for. The CVE questions that come up periodically with Axis2 and its dependencies are essential for the project to continue, and I don't expect being in the attic will allow Axis2 to be used in production projects.  

I have been a committer to Axis2 since 2006. I contributed the Spring Framework support to Axis2, ported the SOAP Monitor from Axis1 to Axis2, and wrote some docs explaining both of these and also the Ant commands. This was all years go.

Since then I did respond to some recent security questions regarding the SOAP Monitor, and I do help on the user list around once a month.

From my perspective, we have at least 3 active members as we have had several releases this year already. No problems voting. Because of any CVE's I always run the latest version and dependencies, so I do test the releases.

The main problem as I see it, is no one has stepped up to take over the monthly Apache board reports as required for the Axis2 project. I am not sure I am the right person for it, though it doesn't seem hard.

As stated, I am hoping Andreas Veithen can share his thoughts.

Kind regards,
Robert


On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Davanum Srinivas <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 from me (Axis->Attic). Lot's of good memories :) Thanks Shane.

-- Dims

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote:
> (bcc: general@, c-dev@, board@ for FYI)
>
> Since there hasn't been any response to the below email by any PMC
> members (or indeed any community members), it may be time Axis to go to
> the Apache Attic, and turn the entire project read-only.
>
> To be blunt: if there are not three active PMC members to ensure that
> the board has quarterly reports and the project could vote on a
> potential security release, my estimate is that the board will move the
> entire Axis project to the Attic no later than the November board
> meeting, possibly earlier.
>
> I strongly urge any PMC members or even committers on the project to
> step up, propose a new PMC chair, and work on a report for the board ASAP.
>
> ---- Some perspective on why board reports are important ----
>
> In the governance model at the ASF the board delegates responsibility
> for managing projects to PMCs. To enable to board to provide oversight
> across the foundation, the the PMCs aretasked with providing the board
> with a quarterly report on the health of the project. The board has
> noticed that the reports for XXX have been missed for a number
> of months.
>
> The reports to the board are normally written by the PMC chair but all
> PMC members have an individual responsibility to ensure that a report is
> submitted. If the PMC chair is not available then any PMC member can
> submit the report. If you need help with this process, please reach out
> to [hidden email]
>
> Please ensure that a report for XXX is submitted to the board for the
> next meeting.
>
> If the PMC chair is not going to be available for an extended period of
> time it may make sense to rotate the PMC chair. Rotating the PMC chair
> does not mean the current chair has failed. People's situations and
> interests change, and rotation is good as it allows more people to
> become familiar with that role. Again, if assistance is required with
> this process, please feel free to reach out to [hidden email]
>
> As projects mature, they will naturally reach a point where activity
> reduces to a level that the project is no longer sustainable. At Apache,
> projects reach this stage when there are no longer 3 active PMC members
> providing oversight. Projects that reach this stage are placed in the
> attic [1].  If XXX has reached this point, please reach out to the Attic
> project to arrange transfer. On the other hand, if your project is
> mostly dormant but still has at least three active PMC members it can
> stay in that state for as long as needed. If your project is in such a
> state, please mention that in your report and verify the PMC's state at
> regular intervals.
>
> Finally, if you have any questions please feel free to reach out to
> [hidden email]
>
> ----
>
> On 2017-09-20 10:31, Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote: > (Note
> mixed private/public lists)
>>
>> The ASF requires that any Apache project have at least three somewhat
>> active PMC members - such that they can do things like review patches,
>> and in particular vote to release a software update in case of security
>> issues.  To verify that Apache projects are still operating by ASF
>> policies, the board requires that each PMC provides a report of activity
>> and project health each quarter.
>>
>> It's clear there's still some contributors wanting to work on Axis, but
>> lately, it's equally clear from watching the lack of acceptable reports
>> to the board that the PMC as a whole is not working out.
>>
>> I strongly urge all PMC members still listening here to work out among
>> yourselves a plan to 1) choose a new project chair and recommend them to
>> the board ASAP and 2) engage with the contributors still here to review
>> their work and keep the project moving forward.
>>
>> If the PMC (and/or committers on the project) can't show some obviously
>> organized energy at project management, then perhaps it's time for the
>> project as a whole to consider moving to the Attic soon.
>
> --
>
> - Shane
>   https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims

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Re: Axis move to the Attic (was: Board concerns over Axis project reports - README)

Martin Gainty
In reply to this post by robertlazarski .

the advantage of using axis is the ease of implementing a service with aar/mar compared to CXF 

Also Axis2 is much easier to implement than AWS (although AWS has obvious advantages with shopping-carts)

i had some problems porting Axis as an ESB publisher and wound up 
replacing Axis aars with CXF for a bank with worldwide operations that needed esb (with offices in brasil no less)


Unfortunately when someone is over-worked and over-stressed (and under-appreciated)
a short curt response can be elicited..maybe that should be mitigated?

I think we should pull in the PMC Glen Daniels on what he thinks ..maybe Ted Husted can make some

suggestions to work with MuleESB? also ReleaseManager dims is working with multilingual smartphones ..any advice on porting Axis services to work with smartphones..dims?


with regards to Axiom:

i vote to split Axiom from Axis and keep Axiom as a top-level ASF project..this would allow devs to swap Axiom with other StaxParsers..thoughts?

also it is my belief Rampart should be split off to top-level ASF project hopefully to participate in more recent advances in PKI..thoughts?


/BR/

Martin
____________________________________________



From: robertlazarski . <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 7:09 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]; Apache Axis PMC
Subject: Re: Axis move to the Attic (was: Board concerns over Axis project reports - README)
 
I was waiting for Andreas Veithen to reply since he is by far the most active contributor to Axis2 currently.

I have a vested interest in Axis2 going forward as its used extensively by the company I work for. The CVE questions that come up periodically with Axis2 and its dependencies are essential for the project to continue, and I don't expect being in the attic will allow Axis2 to be used in production projects.  

I have been a committer to Axis2 since 2006. I contributed the Spring Framework support to Axis2, ported the SOAP Monitor from Axis1 to Axis2, and wrote some docs explaining both of these and also the Ant commands. This was all years go.

Since then I did respond to some recent security questions regarding the SOAP Monitor, and I do help on the user list around once a month.

From my perspective, we have at least 3 active members as we have had several releases this year already. No problems voting. Because of any CVE's I always run the latest version and dependencies, so I do test the releases.

The main problem as I see it, is no one has stepped up to take over the monthly Apache board reports as required for the Axis2 project. I am not sure I am the right person for it, though it doesn't seem hard.

As stated, I am hoping Andreas Veithen can share his thoughts.

Kind regards,
Robert


On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Davanum Srinivas <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 from me (Axis->Attic). Lot's of good memories :) Thanks Shane.

-- Dims

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote:
> (bcc: general@, c-dev@, board@ for FYI)
>
> Since there hasn't been any response to the below email by any PMC
> members (or indeed any community members), it may be time Axis to go to
> the Apache Attic, and turn the entire project read-only.
>
> To be blunt: if there are not three active PMC members to ensure that
> the board has quarterly reports and the project could vote on a
> potential security release, my estimate is that the board will move the
> entire Axis project to the Attic no later than the November board
> meeting, possibly earlier.
>
> I strongly urge any PMC members or even committers on the project to
> step up, propose a new PMC chair, and work on a report for the board ASAP.
>
> ---- Some perspective on why board reports are important ----
>
> In the governance model at the ASF the board delegates responsibility
> for managing projects to PMCs. To enable to board to provide oversight
> across the foundation, the the PMCs aretasked with providing the board
> with a quarterly report on the health of the project. The board has
> noticed that the reports for XXX have been missed for a number
> of months.
>
> The reports to the board are normally written by the PMC chair but all
> PMC members have an individual responsibility to ensure that a report is
> submitted. If the PMC chair is not available then any PMC member can
> submit the report. If you need help with this process, please reach out
> to [hidden email]
>
> Please ensure that a report for XXX is submitted to the board for the
> next meeting.
>
> If the PMC chair is not going to be available for an extended period of
> time it may make sense to rotate the PMC chair. Rotating the PMC chair
> does not mean the current chair has failed. People's situations and
> interests change, and rotation is good as it allows more people to
> become familiar with that role. Again, if assistance is required with
> this process, please feel free to reach out to [hidden email]
>
> As projects mature, they will naturally reach a point where activity
> reduces to a level that the project is no longer sustainable. At Apache,
> projects reach this stage when there are no longer 3 active PMC members
> providing oversight. Projects that reach this stage are placed in the
> attic [1].  If XXX has reached this point, please reach out to the Attic
> project to arrange transfer. On the other hand, if your project is
> mostly dormant but still has at least three active PMC members it can
> stay in that state for as long as needed. If your project is in such a
> state, please mention that in your report and verify the PMC's state at
> regular intervals.
>
> Finally, if you have any questions please feel free to reach out to
> [hidden email]
>
> ----
>
> On 2017-09-20 10:31, Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote: > (Note
> mixed private/public lists)
>>
>> The ASF requires that any Apache project have at least three somewhat
>> active PMC members - such that they can do things like review patches,
>> and in particular vote to release a software update in case of security
>> issues.  To verify that Apache projects are still operating by ASF
>> policies, the board requires that each PMC provides a report of activity
>> and project health each quarter.
>>
>> It's clear there's still some contributors wanting to work on Axis, but
>> lately, it's equally clear from watching the lack of acceptable reports
>> to the board that the PMC as a whole is not working out.
>>
>> I strongly urge all PMC members still listening here to work out among
>> yourselves a plan to 1) choose a new project chair and recommend them to
>> the board ASAP and 2) engage with the contributors still here to review
>> their work and keep the project moving forward.
>>
>> If the PMC (and/or committers on the project) can't show some obviously
>> organized energy at project management, then perhaps it's time for the
>> project as a whole to consider moving to the Attic soon.
>
> --
>
> - Shane
>   https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims

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Re: Axis move to the Attic (was: Board concerns over Axis project reports - README)

Rich Bowen
In reply to this post by Deepal Jayasinghe-2
On 10/11/2017 10:23 PM, Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
> I agree with Robert, Andreas is really active and he was able to push
> forward a release few weeks back as well.
>
> I really like him to be the PMC chair and we can give required support
> to him

This is clearly the preferred outcome. Please make it happen.

Thanks.

--Rich

>
> Deepal
>> I was waiting for Andreas Veithen to reply since he is by far the most
>> active contributor to Axis2 currently.
>>
>> I have a vested interest in Axis2 going forward as its used
>> extensively by the company I work for. The CVE questions that come up
>> periodically with Axis2 and its dependencies are essential for the
>> project to continue, and I don't expect being in the attic will allow
>> Axis2 to be used in production projects.
>>
>> I have been a committer to Axis2 since 2006. I contributed the Spring
>> Framework support to Axis2, ported the SOAP Monitor from Axis1 to
>> Axis2, and wrote some docs explaining both of these and also the Ant
>> commands. This was all years go.
>>
>> Since then I did respond to some recent security questions regarding
>> the SOAP Monitor, and I do help on the user list around once a month.
>>
>> From my perspective, we have at least 3 active members as we have had
>> several releases this year already. No problems voting. Because of any
>> CVE's I always run the latest version and dependencies, so I do test
>> the releases.
>>
>> The main problem as I see it, is no one has stepped up to take over
>> the monthly Apache board reports as required for the Axis2 project. I
>> am not sure I am the right person for it, though it doesn't seem hard.
>>
>> As stated, I am hoping Andreas Veithen can share his thoughts.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Robert
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Davanum Srinivas <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>     +1 from me (Axis->Attic). Lot's of good memories :) Thanks Shane.
>>
>>     -- Dims
>>
>>     On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Shane Curcuru
>>     <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>     > (bcc: general@, c-dev@, board@ for FYI)
>>     >
>>     > Since there hasn't been any response to the below email by any PMC
>>     > members (or indeed any community members), it may be time Axis
>>     to go to
>>     > the Apache Attic, and turn the entire project read-only.
>>     >
>>     > To be blunt: if there are not three active PMC members to ensure
>>     that
>>     > the board has quarterly reports and the project could vote on a
>>     > potential security release, my estimate is that the board will
>>     move the
>>     > entire Axis project to the Attic no later than the November board
>>     > meeting, possibly earlier.
>>     >
>>     > I strongly urge any PMC members or even committers on the project to
>>     > step up, propose a new PMC chair, and work on a report for the
>>     board ASAP.
>>     >
>>     > ---- Some perspective on why board reports are important ----
>>     >
>>     > In the governance model at the ASF the board delegates
>>     responsibility
>>     > for managing projects to PMCs. To enable to board to provide
>>     oversight
>>     > across the foundation, the the PMCs aretasked with providing the
>>     board
>>     > with a quarterly report on the health of the project. The board has
>>     > noticed that the reports for XXX have been missed for a number
>>     > of months.
>>     >
>>     > The reports to the board are normally written by the PMC chair
>>     but all
>>     > PMC members have an individual responsibility to ensure that a
>>     report is
>>     > submitted. If the PMC chair is not available then any PMC member can
>>     > submit the report. If you need help with this process, please
>>     reach out
>>     > to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     >
>>     > Please ensure that a report for XXX is submitted to the board
>>     for the
>>     > next meeting.
>>     >
>>     > If the PMC chair is not going to be available for an extended
>>     period of
>>     > time it may make sense to rotate the PMC chair. Rotating the PMC
>>     chair
>>     > does not mean the current chair has failed. People's situations and
>>     > interests change, and rotation is good as it allows more people to
>>     > become familiar with that role. Again, if assistance is required
>>     with
>>     > this process, please feel free to reach out to [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     >
>>     > As projects mature, they will naturally reach a point where activity
>>     > reduces to a level that the project is no longer sustainable. At
>>     Apache,
>>     > projects reach this stage when there are no longer 3 active PMC
>>     members
>>     > providing oversight. Projects that reach this stage are placed
>>     in the
>>     > attic [1].  If XXX has reached this point, please reach out to
>>     the Attic
>>     > project to arrange transfer. On the other hand, if your project is
>>     > mostly dormant but still has at least three active PMC members
>>     it can
>>     > stay in that state for as long as needed. If your project is in
>>     such a
>>     > state, please mention that in your report and verify the PMC's
>>     state at
>>     > regular intervals.
>>     >
>>     > Finally, if you have any questions please feel free to reach out to
>>     > [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     >
>>     > ----
>>     >
>>     > On 2017-09-20 10:31, Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > (Note
>>     > mixed private/public lists)
>>     >>
>>     >> The ASF requires that any Apache project have at least three
>>     somewhat
>>     >> active PMC members - such that they can do things like review
>>     patches,
>>     >> and in particular vote to release a software update in case of
>>     security
>>     >> issues.  To verify that Apache projects are still operating by ASF
>>     >> policies, the board requires that each PMC provides a report of
>>     activity
>>     >> and project health each quarter.
>>     >>
>>     >> It's clear there's still some contributors wanting to work on
>>     Axis, but
>>     >> lately, it's equally clear from watching the lack of acceptable
>>     reports
>>     >> to the board that the PMC as a whole is not working out.
>>     >>
>>     >> I strongly urge all PMC members still listening here to work
>>     out among
>>     >> yourselves a plan to 1) choose a new project chair and
>>     recommend them to
>>     >> the board ASAP and 2) engage with the contributors still here
>>     to review
>>     >> their work and keep the project moving forward.
>>     >>
>>     >> If the PMC (and/or committers on the project) can't show some
>>     obviously
>>     >> organized energy at project management, then perhaps it's time
>>     for the
>>     >> project as a whole to consider moving to the Attic soon.
>>     >
>>     > --
>>     >
>>     > - Shane
>>     > https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources
>>     <https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources>
>>
>>
>>
>>     --
>>     Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims
>>
>>     ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>
>>
>


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Re: Axis move to the Attic (was: Board concerns over Axis project reports - README)

robertlazarski .
In reply to this post by Martin Gainty


On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 11:26 PM, Martin Gainty <[hidden email]> wrote:
with regards to Axiom:

i vote to split Axiom from Axis and keep Axiom as a top-level ASF project..this would allow devs to swap Axiom with other StaxParsers..thoughts?

also it is my belief Rampart should be split off to top-level ASF project hopefully to participate in more recent advances in PKI..thoughts?

/BR/

Martin

Martin is a curious fellow, he is not an Axis2 committer and he opens several non-sense Jira's a month that are immediately closed. 

After years of this behavior, its been mentioned by Andreas on the mailing list that he is simply trolling. I can say its very odd behavior.

Robert 
 
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Re: Axis move to the Attic (was: Board concerns over Axis project reports - README)

Andreas Veithen-2
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:28 PM, robertlazarski .
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 11:26 PM, Martin Gainty <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> with regards to Axiom:
>>
>> i vote to split Axiom from Axis and keep Axiom as a top-level ASF
>> project..this would allow devs to swap Axiom with other
>> StaxParsers..thoughts?
>>
>> also it is my belief Rampart should be split off to top-level ASF project
>> hopefully to participate in more recent advances in PKI..thoughts?
>>
>> /BR/
>>
>> Martin
>
>
> Martin is a curious fellow, he is not an Axis2 committer and he opens
> several non-sense Jira's a month that are immediately closed.
>
> After years of this behavior, its been mentioned by Andreas on the mailing
> list that he is simply trolling. I can say its very odd behavior.

I think it's time to ban him from this mailing list. That's probably
better for everyone involved.

>
> Robert
>

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